tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8186415970183036709.post2296215760197683991..comments2024-03-05T03:33:39.479-08:00Comments on Mad Scientist Audio Black Discus Blog: Why "Audio Objectivists" are so wrong.bobhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08068391165881872741noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8186415970183036709.post-64190670566683629122017-09-28T09:09:53.345-07:002017-09-28T09:09:53.345-07:00Bob I did not know you were a trained EE :) with t...Bob I did not know you were a trained EE :) with that said your very special in that, you can think outside the normal school books theory and IMO is very important otherwise nothing can be learned as most EE think everything has been done and published good for you sir! :)))))Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06059118567221463718noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8186415970183036709.post-80614014198678485972017-09-28T05:38:53.588-07:002017-09-28T05:38:53.588-07:00"What part of blind tests did not you underst..."What part of blind tests did not you understand?"<br />Why subjectivists appears in a real, documented and presented blind tests to 99.9% as deaf? This is prooved many times. And than follows complaints about the stress, unknown acoustics and many more subjective factors..:-)) But conditions are the same during whole test. <br />Can you answer one simple qestion? How can change sound (colour, dynamics, space....) without the change of sound signal?<br />Bye..Objectivistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8186415970183036709.post-13119690781759273262017-09-28T05:14:33.998-07:002017-09-28T05:14:33.998-07:00What part about blind testing didn't you under...What part about blind testing didn't you understand?bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08068391165881872741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8186415970183036709.post-34592938437288610372017-09-28T04:15:06.020-07:002017-09-28T04:15:06.020-07:00"Remember that in science, evidence overturns..."Remember that in science, evidence overturns theories" Agree.. And you have no proof for your claims about changes in sound (= signal) . Subjective feeling (I have heard..) ís not proof for any real improvement (=must be change in signal). Simple logic is enough to understand this.Objectivistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8186415970183036709.post-60551236181024475982017-09-28T02:58:20.760-07:002017-09-28T02:58:20.760-07:00Look I know I'm never going to convince you, b...Look I know I'm never going to convince you, but equally you are just trotting out things I've heard, thought about and decided that plain evidence suggests otherwise. I do many blind tests, probably more in a year than most people ever do in their lives, so I know for sure when an effect is real. And experimental eveidence like that is not going to be overturned by any theory, especially vague ones. Remember that in science, evidence overturns theories, not the other way round.bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08068391165881872741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8186415970183036709.post-28413811861990295712017-09-28T02:37:55.336-07:002017-09-28T02:37:55.336-07:00" What this shows is that music is composed o..." What this shows is that music is composed of literally thousands of sine waves played simultaneously, and this changes from momemnt to moment. Another way of saying this is that if you analyze music into the frequency domain you find that it contains many many frequencies"<br />All those thousands of sine waves (music) always create one momentary voltage. If component can reproduce "momentary voltage" without deviation (linear, nonlinear, dynamic, distortion in range of -100-120dB), than it can reproduce also music. You can simulate music with pseudorandom noise ,with components also outside audioband. Forget that music is something special (maybe emotional), but it is only signal, like sinus, multitone, noise..It is a bit strange to think about components so to say "anthropomorphic", they are not thinking about history or future of signal. It is plain engineering.<br />And forgive my english, it is not my native language.Objectivistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8186415970183036709.post-37386114588695243112017-09-28T02:18:15.786-07:002017-09-28T02:18:15.786-07:00Censorship? This ain't a public forum, it'...Censorship? This ain't a public forum, it's my blog and my rules apply. I don't mind proper argumments, but you start making wild accusations then it's gone.<br /><br />Now as for your argument that fourier synthesis yields music, you should read what I actually said:<br /><br />a) Fourier theorem does not apply exactly to music, as it's not a periodic waveform. It does approximate music though<br /><br />b) What this shows is that music is composed of literally thousands of sine waves played simultaneously, and this changes from momemnt to moment. Another way of saying this is that if you analyze music into the frequency domain you find that it contains many many frequencies.<br /><br />The point of this was to show how measuring (or reproducing) one sine wave is not the same as reproducing music.<br /><br />I'm amazed that you think this is controversial! Also surprised that someone of your experience doesn't understand emmergence. Suggesting that emergence is somehow like the placebo effect doesn't make me take you seriously. Try making cogent arguments instead of ranting.<br /><br />bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08068391165881872741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8186415970183036709.post-30617579055598291152017-09-28T02:05:12.436-07:002017-09-28T02:05:12.436-07:00If there are no arguments, censorship has begun? I...If there are no arguments, censorship has begun? If You are EE, You for sure know fourier synthesis.. As I wrote (in deleted post), I am also EE with 40ears praxis, more than 25 years activities with own products in audio, but supported by facts and measurements.. And for sure I am not relying on "basic electronics", it is not possible. But in the same moment it is not possible to throw away those basic principles. Your "high level system behavior" is simple psychoacoustic, something like placebo effect.Objectivistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8186415970183036709.post-2067633431453306592017-09-28T01:52:19.685-07:002017-09-28T01:52:19.685-07:00btw, I don't mind Objectivists commmenting but...btw, I don't mind Objectivists commmenting but you start spewing rubbish and you commment will be deleted.bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08068391165881872741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8186415970183036709.post-62096931713708695932017-09-28T01:42:16.838-07:002017-09-28T01:42:16.838-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Objectivistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8186415970183036709.post-4335646099304993852017-09-28T01:11:40.973-07:002017-09-28T01:11:40.973-07:00Sorry but you are not making a lot of sense. AOs d...Sorry but you are not making a lot of sense. AOs don't and cannot measure music signals, they are too complex, so they measure simple signals and try to make judgements based on this. And by the way, I also only look at facts, and just in case you were unsure, I have been an electronic engineer for almost 40 years now, so I am well aware of basic electronics, basic physics (including quantum mechanics), etc, so pointing this out really doesn't help much. If you read what I wrote, you will see that I explicitly said:<br />==============================================<br /> I'm not saying that audio gear implies some kind of new-physics, but any decent scientist knows that there are emergent effects that are not well understood in any field.<br />==============================================<br /><br />I suppose you know what an emergent effect is? Try reading this<br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergence<br /><br />The point being that you simply cannot predict high level system behavior from "basic electronics". Applies to many more fields than audio btw. (eg you cannot predict War and Peace from quantum mechanics)<br />bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08068391165881872741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8186415970183036709.post-89870689854837868922017-09-28T00:46:23.671-07:002017-09-28T00:46:23.671-07:00AOs they look only at the facts. And the simplest ...AOs they look only at the facts. And the simplest thing is that you can not change the sound without changing the signal.<br />Only if you believe in extrasensory perception. But it is pure shamanism.Objectivistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8186415970183036709.post-65706829880817422612017-09-27T22:24:06.536-07:002017-09-27T22:24:06.536-07:00You're right - AOs only look at the elementary...You're right - AOs only look at the elementary priciples, totally missing the second order effects that cause the effects I'm talking about.bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08068391165881872741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8186415970183036709.post-22503456851901019662017-09-27T22:09:34.559-07:002017-09-27T22:09:34.559-07:00"n the end I think the AO phenomena is a lot ..."n the end I think the AO phenomena is a lot about ego, the need to be right, and most of all, a patronizing way to feel superior to all the stupid audiophiles like us."<br />No , it is about elementary principles of physics and psychoacoustic. Not about "magic". It is very well known part of electronics.Objectivistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8186415970183036709.post-14924476404079315292017-09-27T09:15:42.433-07:002017-09-27T09:15:42.433-07:00Very good Bob!, one aspect I would like to address...Very good Bob!, one aspect I would like to address...The thousands of frequencies all happening at "ONE" point in time is NOT correct, if you have an audio editor you can easily see that the waveform is time based meaning the waveform is stretched out in time NOT happening all at once in time :) <br /><br />I also agree music have complex waveforms simple tests IM etc will not show whats really happening, because music is ever changing not steady state :)<br /><br />LawrenceAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06059118567221463718noreply@blogger.com